Curse

spartans · Jul 25, 2005, 02:28 PM // 14:28

Hooray!!!!
very good arguments Anarkii. totally agree.

ppl need to realize there are many different forms of game play styles and motives in GW.

to those who dictate how I should play or say my style of gaming hurts yours I say this...my $50 buying the game is the same as your $50 so dont preach to me, I dont dictate how you play!

Saerden · Jul 25, 2005, 03:06 PM // 15:06

Remember that accoring to the EULA, they can ban you for everything except being black or voting for the republicans. I think they can even ban you for drinking warm beer. While it is not "illegal" to sell / buy stuff on ebay (atm), they can still ban you. Or they can lobby enough to pass laws that make it illegal.

Its just very unlikely, because the second market is very strong, stronger then Sony ... so its just a standoff atm - the sellers can sell in a grey area, and the MMORPG companies are affraid to sue because they would probably loose.

Azadaleou · Jul 25, 2005, 03:13 PM // 15:13

Ebaying in GW makes zero sense to me. When people ebay in mmorpgs they do it get items that makes their character better. In GW you make yourself a better player, items don't. So if you suck in pvp/pve before you got your fissure armor. You will still suck after you buy fissure armor.

Snuk the Great · Jul 25, 2005, 03:14 PM // 15:14

In other words people are not the same, everyone has its own motivations and or opinions. This does not change the facts. A fact is that selling gameworld stuff is against the rules and should not be done.

And my opinion simpely is that selling stuff for real money is not fair for people who work hard for their ingame stuff (go farming, sell stuff, the whole act). These people work realy hard to eventualy show the world what they have achieved.

Now this guy above is realy proud and tells one of his friends/guildmates of his achievements. The next day that friend shows up and shows he has even better stuff then the guy and he did not have to do any stuff for it but his father (!) just bought this stuff for him for $100
Believe me, for a gamer this is realy demoralizing. Especialy because it once again means that poeple with more money always win.

I hope you get my point

Anarkii · Jul 25, 2005, 03:16 PM // 15:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saerden

.... and the MMORPG companies are affraid to sue because they would probably loose.

Yes, they would, because of the "..time and effort spent..." tag at the bottom.

You and your roommate (say) are doing a 2-man smite. He gets a gold storm bow. You tell him "hey mate, I'd owe ya a treat at smokin joe's if ye gimme that storm =D ". He gives it to you and the next day, you two hang out at the pizza place. Can ANet sue you for that?

Selling it for RL money isnt much different.

Algren Cole · Jul 25, 2005, 03:28 PM // 15:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saerden

Remember that accoring to the EULA, they can ban you for everything except being black or voting for the republicans. I think they can even ban you for drinking warm beer. While it is not "illegal" to sell / buy stuff on ebay (atm), they can still ban you. Or they can lobby enough to pass laws that make it illegal.

Its just very unlikely, because the second market is very strong, stronger then Sony ... so its just a standoff atm - the sellers can sell in a grey area, and the MMORPG companies are affraid to sue because they would probably loose.

purchasing video game items for real money will NEVER be illegal.

Anarkii · Jul 25, 2005, 03:31 PM // 15:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snuk the Great

In other words people are not the same, everyone has its own motivations and or opinions. This does not change the facts. A fact is that selling gameworld stuff is against the rules and should not be done.

And my opinion simpely is that selling stuff for real money is not fair for people who work hard for their ingame stuff (go farming, sell stuff, the whole act). These people work realy hard to eventualy show the world what they have achieved.

Now this guy above is realy proud and tells one of his friends/guildmates of his achievements. The next day that friend shows up and shows he has even better stuff then the guy and he did not have to do any stuff for it but his father (!) just bought this stuff for him for $100
Believe me, for a gamer this is realy demoralizing. Especialy because it once again means that poeple with more money always win.

I hope you get my point

Its unfair if a guy has better stuff, just because he has more money, and its not unfair if a guy has better stuff, just because he has more time , yes?

Please read through all the posts, before posting.
Time IS Money.

Azadaleou · Jul 25, 2005, 03:36 PM // 15:36

Can anyone tell me the benefit of ebaying in gw? What? Just to "look" better?

I come from Lineage II, which probably has the most ebayers/ige customers. In l2 it made sense why people ebayed even though I wasn't for it. You see in l2 it literally took months and months to get something decent.

Here are some examples:

A. I finally save 35mil adena to get a Damascus sword(35mil is alot btw, seeing you get a average of 500a per mob). While fighting I die and drop the weapon and some farmer(who farms to sell adena on ebay/ige) comes and picks up the sword and doesn't give it back. So I have a few choices. Quit the game, ebay or hope clan members help replace my weapon.

B. I'm a lvl 40 character but still in lvl 20 gear. In the world of l2 it means you basically can't go on. Mobs kill you in a few hits and no one puts you in party. So I have a few choices. Quit the game, ebay, ask clannies for help or reroll to a different character and use the funds from my previous to by gear for my lvl.

Those are a couple reasons why people ebay in l2. Which makes a whole lot more sense than ebaying in gw. L2 is the type of game that if you have some sort of finanical disaster you would have to literally quit the game or ebay. You spent 6+ months saving for new gear only to drop it by a mob. You become broke and don't have any adena for new gear.

In gw NONE of these things can happen. Items don't play a huge roll in gw like most rpgs. You can live without items like godly storm bow, fissure armor etc. It basically has no effect on gameplay what so ever. Only reason one ebays in gw is for stature.

Anarkii · Jul 25, 2005, 03:38 PM // 15:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azadaleou

Can anyone tell me the benefit of ebaying in gw? What? Just to "look" better?

Whats the benefit of farming in GW? The answer for both is same

Memnon's Mentor · Jul 25, 2005, 03:53 PM // 15:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Disciple

Your respect is easily gained.

Yeah, I am actually so glad you know me well. Any chance for a PhD in psychology?

QuixotesGhost · Jul 25, 2005, 05:15 PM // 17:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anarkii

A quote taken from Sony's site, justifying Sony's support of trading ingame items for real cash.

Lets see the GW scenario. There are 2 players, A and B. None of them are stupid or noobs.
Player A, is a 20 year old student enjoying his summer hols and after finishing the game is farming for 6 hours each day, and his ultimate aim is to get the fissure armor, a 15>50 crystalline sword , and an eternal/magmas shield with 45/-2 enchanted.
Player B, is a lawyer, who earns $50 an hour. He was a passionate and dedicated gamer earlier, but doesnt have that much time now. He too wants a fissure armor and a 15>50 stormbow. He plays only 2 hours a day. He finds it a much better option to buy stuff on ebay that he would have to use a lot of time to farm.

Why can't Mr. Lawyer man just go without?

Algren Cole · Jul 25, 2005, 05:17 PM // 17:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuixotesGhost

Why can't Mr. Lawyer man just go without?

why can't Mr. Farmer Man just go without?

QuixotesGhost · Jul 25, 2005, 05:18 PM // 17:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

why can't Mr. Farmer Man just go without?

He can. But chooses to invest the effort not to.

Algren Cole · Jul 25, 2005, 05:21 PM // 17:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuixotesGhost

He can. But chooses to invest the effort not to.

as can the lawyer...but he chooses to invest the money not to.

Teh Azman · Jul 25, 2005, 05:34 PM // 17:34

Alright, so Sony okay'd it for their game. ARENA.NET DID NOT. It is against the Guild Wars Terms of Service to partake in the buying and selling of gold for real life money, and as such I'm not gonna pay as much as I did for the game just for some amror that's no better than what I have. Even if they do, i still doubt I will. Do what you wish I guess, but if you're willing to take a chance for that account you've been working on for 2 months to be banned, that's your beef.

Saerden · Jul 25, 2005, 05:47 PM // 17:47

Buying gold on ebay is actually very clever.

Gold = unIDed runes, paying rushers (to rush your pve chars to Droknars / Skill outposts and through missions while your afk for skillpoints)

Ironically, due to the Grind (tm), buying maxed accounts on ebay makes EVEN MORE sense then in most MMORPGS. WoW is much more fun 1-60 if your looking to have fun. If you play to win, why are you playing WoW?

In GW, playing to win IS the game. Player skills (are supposed to) matter, but noone can be good if he lacks the tools.

And the funny part: the people who talk about ebay are PvE'lers who want to buy "worthless" (as in: no numerical advantage) status items - and the sellers sell worthless status items instead of the "real" stuff ...

NIB · Jul 25, 2005, 06:48 PM // 18:48

Quote:

Ebaying in GW makes zero sense to me. When people ebay in mmorpgs they do it get items that makes their character better. In GW you make yourself a better player, items don't. So if you suck in pvp/pve before you got your fissure armor. You will still suck after you buy fissure armor.

1 more reason why ebaying is legit for gw. Cause unlike other mmorpg, paying real life money doesnt get you an unfair advantage over the others. It only affects you and the way you potray yourself inside the game. It doesnt affect your in game efficiency, it doesnt increase your skill, it just improves your looks. This and the reasons that anarkii explained, make ebaying legit(from a morally point of view).

Also you dont hack the game and earn money. Buying money from ebaying and hacking the game to earn money are 2 completely different things. When you buy something on ebay, you reward someone for his/her effort to get that item/money and then give it to you. This is fundemental capitalism ppl. The think that most of you believe in.

Quote:

Believe me, for a gamer this is realy demoralizing. Especialy because it once again means that poeple with more money always win

But this isnt the case on gw. Gw is completely different than all other mmorpg. You can get maxed out items through collectors and upgrade them. Just cause your armor doesnt shine, doesnt mean that you have lower in game efficiency than the other. If anything, you can even make fun of someone for spending money/time on something so useless.

Xonic · Jul 25, 2005, 06:53 PM // 18:53

To me, when I look at a piece of armor and know I earned it, I feel satisfied.

I'll feel stupid and empty if I eBay'ed it.

Stur · Jul 25, 2005, 06:59 PM // 18:59

I find the A-net representatives silence on this topic amusing, the two we know best for posting here have been very active in other threads but seem not to have much to say on this. It seems that if A-net was so strongly against this sort of behavior they would be the loudest ones saying that punishment will be swift. I an only assume by the silence that A) they are unsure what they can and can not say, B) they have been told not to take an official stand on the issue, or C) they just don’t want to deal with this very touchy issue?
Gaile, are people being banned for buying? selling? are you actively pursuing the people making the money? Inquiring minds want to know.

spartans · Jul 25, 2005, 07:00 PM // 19:00

Im thinking if I took my character through the game from pre to completion, didnt get armour, skills, weapons, didnt pick up drops at all during missions and quests and absoulutely didnt go into an instanced area to get anything at all then and maybe then I could preach (yes to all game nazis..preach) to all how the game has noting at ll to do with items blah blah blah blah and so on and it must be played like this.

All things are items, even skills.

But I havent..and er eveyone else probably hasnt either, where I differ though is if you want to do that then its ok with me, are we getting the idea now folks.

Play how you enjoy it!! and let others do the same.

If you think what one person does is silly or makes no sense fine, get over it ITS A GAME